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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:47pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

"I think we have said what we could and should" is a polite way of saying that the whole story will not be made available. Sorry, that's the way it goes.

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Poster: hjl1450 Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:51pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

Whatever the title is or subject of official posts...this is not a happy day in Dead land. I'm sitting here in my office listening to another great show from Capitol Theater 1977 April run, one day before Thanksgiving and the world is going to hell in a bucket, and the first snow of the year is falling here in Detroit....and our community is thrown into chaos and shock again reminding me of that sad warm August morning more than ten years ago....

Fare thee well, my only friend.....

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:51pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

gotta wonder people if this had something to do with the article in Time mag. (or Newsweek - cant remember which).

GD must have seen dollar signs flying out the window when this site got more public recognition.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

gotta wonder people if this had something to do with the article in Time mag

That was my own first hunch- the blessing and the curse of being a high profile site, huh?

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Poster: scuppers Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:56pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

Yep, This sure is lame. I had just begun downloading some of the greatest music ever made in the whole world. I managed to get my favorite dozen and I had intended to get more. I was so stoked. I told my brother and a friend who are also loyal fans of the Dead that i had some of the sweetest shows. I was going to give them CD's and i was not expecting anything in return ($$$$$$). I believe that music is meant for the people. It shapes lives and gives us hope. it picks you up when your down, puts a smile on your face when you have a frown. The dead have so much music history that certain folks ( dedicated fans, Dead heads) rely on to get by. Just as we have since the late 60's. All i can say is sit back and be patient folks, maybe they will find it in their hearts to put the music back where it belongs, and where it has always been.... To the people that have loyaly stood by and supported the dead for all these years. "Fat monitors Bob"

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Poster: donbatson Date: Nov 23, 2005 1:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

I personally am crushed! I was enjoying life and smiling again at the chance to re-visit some of the best times in my life. Shows I saw ... all I was doing was learning how to smile again at the joy Grateful Dead music could bring me. Very disappointed guys ... a crushing blow I could barely stand to take. Thanks anyway

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Poster: Ron2112 Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:56pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

> Sorry, that's the way it goes.

Sure....but that sword can cut both ways.

As it pertains to the GD: if this is a permanent fundamental shift in policy, they deserve the fan backlash they're getting.

As it pertains to LMA: if this experiment is really over, then maintaining a "private archive" is completely inappropriate for a non-profit organization, and they should return all their borrowed recordings to the rightful owners.

Sorry, but that's the way it goes.

Peace,
Ron

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:12am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead: IA preservation

maintaining a "private archive" is completely inappropriate for a non-profit organization

No, in fact it's completely appropriate for what this site is about- preservation, even of some archival material that must remain "dark" for now. Example: http://www.archive.org/about/dmca.php

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Poster: pnc Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead: IA preservation



exactly... i am missing the music terribly, and am experiencing a tumult of feelings on the issue. however, i feel better knowing that all that wonderful music is still there, kept safe and warm, and will hopefully be back. even if it does not return in my lifetime...it sure was amazing to have that access while it lasted. thank the heavens for a large external hardrive:)

many thanks to the archive (again) for allowing me to experience an even deeper understanding and appreciation of the music I thought I knew so well.

later...

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Poster: chillhuman Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:28am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead: IA preservation

By your own mission statement -

The Internet Archive is working to prevent the Internet — a new medium with major historical significance — and other "born-digital" materials from disappearing into the past. Collaborating with institutions including the Library of Congress and the Smithsonian, we are working to preserve a record for generations to come.

What's the point of preserving this stuff it it's not freely available "for generations to come" ? I'm sure that when you go to your local / state / national representatives to push for better legal standing, the private archiving doesn't come up.

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Poster: jcroot Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

how exactly do you return a soft copy of a show? what would the source do with it since they already have the exact same thing? there are many instances where brick and mortar libraries have non-circulating materials that are held for archiving and safekeeping so that at one point they might be open to the public when circumstances change. why the spite at the archive anyway? it's clear they're all disappointed about this - do you think they benefit in some way?

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Poster: Ron2112 Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

No spite at all. I'm simply asking for an explanation. Everyone assumes that this a result of something the GD has done or requested. While that's probably a safe assumption, there's been nothing from the GD to indicate why this action was necessary. So before everyone starts letter-writing campaigns and organizing boycotts, it would be nice to know why this is happening. Especially given the time and effort the GD trading community has devoted to this site.

Peace,
Ron

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

there's been nothing from the GD to indicate why this action was necessary.

True. Therefore your demands for more information from the IA are misdirected.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-23 08:38:09

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Poster: Ron2112 Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:40am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

> True. Therefore your demands for more information
> from the IA are misdirected.

Only if 1) it's a given that the GD are behind this and 2) you know that some clarification is coming from GDP. And if that's the case, why not simply say so? All this subterfuge is only causing undue confusion and anxiety.

Peace,
Ron

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Poster: mikeyG Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

I dont see how the Grateful Dead could honestly do something like this. I mean, 40 years of the same policy and now this, something just doesnt add up. Are there even any shows for donwload or are they only for streaming? What is the scope of the removal?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 23, 2005 1:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

Are there even any shows for donwload or are they only for streaming? What is the scope of the removal?

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47634

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Poster: jcroot Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:55am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

what exactly doesn't add up? gdp benefits from selling records of live shows + ia has the same shows for free + when given a choice people typically like free things better than ones they have to pay for + no market for gdp merchandise except perhaps bear decals (carry the one) = gdp informs ia not to host any more sbd shows or audience shows for dl to improve demand for their products that are for sale or will be in the future.

disappointing but not mysterious

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Poster: Ron2112 Date: Nov 23, 2005 1:08am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

> what exactly doesn't add up?

I think what the original poster meant by "not adding up" is that the policy in place up to about 24 hours ago seemed to be working fine. I'll cite the Fillmore East '69 run as a perfect example. Those shows were available here for some time, yet when the GD decided to officially release them, the box sets still sold like hotcakes. If the $500+ prices they're fetching on eBay is any indication, the demand is still pretty high.

Now, if it's GDPs intention to make the entire vault available for a reasonable price, then why haven't they announced this intention yet? Either way, I still don't see the conflict with LMA, given the example cited above and the fact that most of the new downloads are shows that were never available here in the first place.

Which brings me to the next point....the reason that the recent official downloads aren't selling so well has nothing to do with LMA. It's because $20 is simply too much for most folks to spend on a show that you have to burn yourself.

I can see the logic GDP is applying, but their fundamentla assumptions seem flawed.

Peace,
Ron

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Poster: mikeyG Date: Nov 23, 2005 1:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

Yeah i mean it makes sense, I guess I just always put the Grateful Dead in a seperate boat when it comes to these types of things but when it comes down to it there no different than anybody else...making money is more important than providing free music to the masses

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Poster: Albix714 Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:36am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

I'd have to say this is the wrong forum but you can thank GDP for that one. They've left people no other venue. If I were the archive, I wouldn't want anything to do with GD music again.

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Poster: PhunkyZen Date: Nov 23, 2005 2:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

This news story says it all.. we should have seen this coming awhile ago.

Grateful Dead to offer entire catalog on iTMS
March 19, 2004 - 11:38 EST The Grateful Dead are finalizing a deal with Apple to make every live note they've ever recorded available for download from the iTunes Music Store (iTMS). "Everything, sooner or later, will end up being released on the Web," guitarist Bob Weir says. "What we wanna do is digitize our entire catalog, our entire collection of tapes and make that stuff available. I think iTunes is up to that." The band has recorded all of its live shows since the late 1960s. Weir says the Dead's jams are a bargain. "At 99 cents a tune, it's a pretty decent price, because most of our tunes are pretty long."

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Poster: Down the road feeling bad Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:36am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

Well, PhunkyZen may have a good point. Here's a link to a similar story:
http://macteens.org/index.php/features/fullstory/itunes_set_to_feature_all_of_the_grateful_deads_live_performances/

and a more recent one (March 2, 2005)

http://news.com.com/iTunes+walks+with+the+Dead/2100-1027_3-5596572.html

This sucks... 99 cents isn't exactly cheap and moreover it's absurd for an ACC or mp3

It sure looks like we're screwed folks


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Poster: Down the road feeling bad Date: Nov 23, 2005 2:50am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

do you have a link to that 'story'?

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Poster: dire--wolf Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

Dianna, to your knowlege, will there be any formal word from the Dead in regards to this situation or is it just what it is?

In addition, as volunteer's for the Archive, does your team have access to these shows that are not available to us or are they off limits to the staff as well?

Repsecfuly, I feel everyone just want's some sort of answer to clarify so there isn't all this speculation. It would be easier to adjust knowing the truth.

Thank you for your time.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 23, 2005 1:12am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

What I know on the current changes is already covered in what you can read in Brewster's posts. He's talked about the changes from the Archive's viewpoint in a very clear way that is sufficient for here.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-23 09:12:18

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Poster: chun Date: Nov 23, 2005 1:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Removal: What's the Whole Story?

Apparently not - since everyone is clamoring to know the entire story......